Stern Lightning startet nicht; er blinkt nur 2 x, dann brummt er

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  • Hi, danke für deine Antwort,
    die Batterien sind ausgelagert, und er lief davor. Er stand nur 3 Jahre rum.
    Aber ich lasse die CPU danach überprüfen….oder du kannst da etwas erkennen..
    Vielen Dank
    Gunmaster
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  • 5101 Sockel sind getauscht aber der Rest dort sieht total angegammelt aus. Der Schaden durch die ausgelaufenen Batterien wurde zumindest nicht ordentlich gefixed.
    Technische- und Reparaturanfragen per pm ohne vorherigen Forumsthread werden nicht beantwortet.
  • Hallo Flipperfreunde,
    Ichwar bei meinem Flipperkönig, welcher die CPU durchsah.
    Vorab eine Frage. Zählt das erste Aufleuchten bei den 7 Aufleuchten dazu, oder ist das erste nur das Startzeichen?
    Wenn es nur da Startzeichen ist, dann leuchtet die CPU nur ein zusätzliches Mal.
    Wenn der drittunterste Baustein (Rom) rausgezogen ist, dann leuchtet es kein zusätzliches Mal.
    Auf dem Foto, habe ich den Baustein markiert.
    Kann es sein, dass ein Ersatz dieses Bausteines, das (erste) Problem beiseitigt?
    Oder soll ich eine Alltek Ersatzplatine kaufen(200 er die passende)?
    VG
    Gunder
  • Also die Reparatur von diesem Fehler sollte vielleicht 20-40 Euro kosten mehr nicht (die 6821 von AMI uU gleich mit tauschen je nachdem)
    das ist wesentlich besser als eine neue MPU


    Was du markierst ist das 6810 RAM wenn dass draussen/defekt ist sollte er 1* blinken

    Im Zweifel schick mir mal eine private Nachricht

    Martin
    Live Long and Prosper
  • Hi Martin,

    danke für deine Nachricht.
    Als die 6810 ? raus war, blinkte es 1x, wenn das erste blinken nicht das Startsignal ist.
    Sry, ich drücke mich etwas umständlich aus.
    Mein Flipperkönig wusste nicht so genau, wie gezählt wird, ob jedes Blinken gezählt wird, oder ob das erste Blinken quasi das Startsignal ist, und man erst nach dem zweiten Blinken beginnt zu Zählen.
    Wenn ich das jetzt zusammen bewerte, zählt das erste Blinken mit, d.h. , als der 6810 er raus war, blinkte es ingesamt ein Mal.
    Ich müsste demnach den 6810 er austauschen?
    wo könnte ich ihn bekommen…habe ihn nicht gefunden.
    Vielen Dank
    Gunder
  • wenn das entfernen des 6810 was verändert ist es nicht defekt
    es ist eines der 5101 nicht klar welches er zuerst testet kann auch eine Leiterbahn sein vom Akku zerfressen wie FRG sagt schlecht reparierter Batterieschaden

    der kurze flicker testet die ROMS der erste lange Flash das 6810 die nächsten beiden die 5101 wenn Du die beiden 5101 swapst und eine Veränderung siehst ist es eines der beiden
    aberVorsicht die sind sehr empfindlich solltest geerdet sein oder mindestens vorher die masse anfassen

    martin
    Live Long and Prosper
  • Mr.Startrek wrote:

    Also die Reparatur von diesem Fehler sollte vielleicht 20-40 Euro kosten mehr nicht (die 6821 von AMI uU gleich mit tauschen je nachdem)
    das ist wesentlich besser als eine neue MPU


    Was du markierst ist das 6810 RAM wenn dass draussen/defekt ist sollte er 1* blinken

    Im Zweifel schick mir mal eine private Nachricht

    Martin
    ok,
    einiges habe ich verstanden, anderes nicht.
    Welche Teile kann ich also bestellen, damit ich eventuell durchkomme.
    Hast du vielleicht die Teile. Wenn du mir die Artikelnummern spendest, kaufe ich sie…bei dir?
    vielen Dank
    Flipperkaiser..
  • Das erste kurze Aufblitzen nennt man "first flicker", das zählt nicht mit. Deine CPU blinkt also nur einmal. Wie Martin schreibt, wird mit dem zweiten Blinken der 6810 getestet. Wenn das zweite Blinken nicht kommt, ist in der Regel entweder das IC oder der Sockel nicht Ok.

    Hier ist eine Erklärung für alle Blinker, kopiert aus Marvins Reparaturanleitung:

    Grüße André

    first flicker bis third flash:
    Display Spoiler

    1st Brief Flicker Completed:
    The Fakers Guide: If the LED briefly flickers on power-up, the CPU chip has booted and found the startup code in ROM U6, and is starting to execute startup/test program in ROM U6.So U6 (ROM), U9 (CPU), U11 (PIA), the reset components, and +5 volts DC are good (remember some Stern games also require the U2 and/or U5/U6 ROMs for the first flicker). If the LED locks on, one of these components(or some other supporting components such as the MPU's Q1, Q2, Q5, VR1, or C23, Q20 on the solenoid driver board) are bad (see above).Also the traces connecting these components together could be bad (battery corrosion!)
    Techno Guide: On power-up, the U9 CPU chip requires +5 volts DC be appliedbefore the reset line is allowed to swing from 0 to +4.8 volts. It also requiresthe presense of a two-phase, non-overlapping clock pulse. If these conditions aremet, and if the U9 CPU chip itself is good, the LED on the MPU board brieflyflickers.
    The brief flicker indicates the operation is proper. The MPU has gone out tomemory and obtained the starting address of the self-test from memory.The flicker indicates that it then went to that address in the U6 ROM and started toexecute the self-test program in the U6 ROM.
    The Valid Power Detectors circuit on the U9 CPU works with the +5 volts DCregulator Q20 on the solenoid driver board. This prevents the reset linefrom going high until +5 volts DC is proper at the U9 CPU chip. Q20 issupposed to go into regulation when +7.5 volts DC is applied to its input.This means that when the game is turned on, and a sufficient time (milliseconds)has passed so that C23 on the solenoid driver board has charged, Q20 switchesinto regulation. This supplies +5 volts DC to the MPU board.
    Q1 on the MPU board (in the valid power detector circuit) does not allowthe CPU chip to turn on immediately. The zener diode VR1, in series with thebase of Q1 delays application of the reset voltage until C23 charges. Atthis point, Q1 and Q5 on the MPU board go into conduction, and the resetline at the MPU is caused to go high. Only then is the U9 CPU chip "on".
    The importance of the Valid Power Detection circuit can be appreciatedwhen the following fact is known; should the reset line be allowed to gohigh before the +5 volts is applied and proper, or should the +5 voltsupply fail and go out of regulation, the U9 CPU chip can jump out ofthe program. The reason this happens is that the U9 CPU goes out to theprogram memory bank U1-U6 for instructions. The logic levels are wrongbecause the +5 volts is not proper. The MPU misinterprets the data,jumps out of the program, and executes this misinterpreted program!The U9 CPU is now like a train that has left the tracks, and it can end upanywhere. The difference is that a train will eventually stop. But theU9 CPU may continue as long as the clock circuit continues to run.
    If the U9 CPU jumps out of the program, it is said to be in "run away".While it is mis-interpreting the program, it invariably overwritesthe Bookkeeping function in U8 and the scratch pad RAM. An indicationof a "run away" would be false data in bookkeeping. Probablecause is a faulty Q20 or C23 (or both) on the solenoid driver boared,or a leaky zener diode VR1 on the MPU board.
    First Flash Completed:
    The Fakers Guide: flash number one means ROM U1 to U6 are good.No first flash means one (or more) of the game program ROMs U1 to U6 are bad. Could be a mis-jumpered board, or a bad ROM chip at U1 to U6, or a bad ROM socket at U1 to U6.
    Techno Guide: the U9 CPU chip next goes out to the programROM's (read only memory) U1 to U6. It tests each chip in thebank, in accordance to how the MPU board is jumpered. When itfinds the bank is correct, it flashes the LED for the firstflash. A fault in the U1 to U6 ROM chips is indicated by theabsense of the first flash.
    The U9 CPU tests each ROM chip's function like this: in a gamewith ROM chips U2 and U6 (typical), the CPU first goes toU2. It fetches the first byte in U2, and adds it to thesecond byte in U2. It will add to this sum the third bytein U2. This continues until all bytes in the chip have beenadded up. If the sum of all the bytes is "0000 0000", the U9 CPUproceeds to U6 and repeats this process. If U6 has a sum of"0000 0000", the U9 CPU causes the LED to flash the firsttime. Fault in either U2 or U6 is indicated by the absenceof the first flash.
    The contents of each ROM chip have byte locations called checksums,reserved for this test routine. There is one checksum byte reserved in each512 bytes of ROM memory. The game programmer at Bally must insert abtye with the proper value in each checksum byte location to forceeach 512 byte checksum to equal "0000 0000".
    During the life of an electronic game, if a ROM chip U1 to U6 failsby so much as a single bit, it will be detected during this CPU test.The CPU will not continue until the defective ROM chip isreplaced.
    Second Flash Completed:
    The Fakers Guide: a second flash meansthe 6810 RAM at U7 is good. No second flash means U7 (6810) or its socket are bad.
    Techno Guide: The U9 CPU chip goes out to the U7 RAM anderases the contents of the first byte (U7 is a 128 byte scratchpad memory). It then tries to read back the word "0000 0000" (indicatingerased). If it can read it back, it adds "1" and continues. 256 trieslater, it writes the word "1111 1111". If it can read it back, it hasdetermined that the first byte in U7 is good. It repeats thisprocess for each of the 128 bytes of RAM in U7, one at a time. If atthe end of this 256 x 128 (=32,768) tests, each time the CPU writes,it can read the same word back, the CPU cause the LED to flasha second time.
    Note the pause between the first and second flashes. This is the CPUdoing 32,768 tests to the RAM at U7 and repeats the process.
    Third Flash Completed:
    The Fakers Guide: a third flash means theU8 5101 RAM is good. No third flash means U8 (5101) or its socketis bad.
    Techno Guide: The U9 CPU goes out to U8 (CMOS 5101 RAM) andmakes a copy of the contents of the first half byte. It does thisbecause U8 is battery supplied, non-volatile memory where thebookkeeping functions are stored. It then erases the contents ofthe first half byte, and tries to read back the word "0000 xxxx".If it can read it back, it adds "1" to the previous word (giving"0001 xxxx"). It continues to write and read until it reachesthe word "1111 xxxx". When this is done successfully, the CPUrestores the original contents to the first byte located in U8. It thenmakes a copy of the contents of the second byte, and repeats theprocess. It does this for the entire 256 bytes, one at a time. If atthe end of the 256 x 16 (=4096) test, each time the CPU writes andreads the same word correctly, the CPU caused the LED to flasha third time.
    Since the 5101 U8 RAM is in the "corrosion zone", here is a quickcheck of the U8's connection to other components. This will helpdetermine if the U8 socket is bad. (Note the letter/number in parendsis the address, or data, or chip enable number.)

    • U8 pin 1 (A3) - U7 pin 20, U6 pin 5
    • U8 pin 2 (A2) - U7 pin 21, U6 pin 6
    • U8 pin 3 (A1) - U7 pin 22, U6 pin 7, U11 pin 35
    • U8 pin 4 (A0) - U7 pin 23, U6 pin 8, U11 pin 36
    • U8 pin 5 (A5) - U7 pin 18, U6 pin 3
    • U8 pin 6 (A6) - U7 pin 17, U6 pin 2
    • U8 pin 7 (A7) - U7 pin 15, U6 pin 1, U11 pin 24
    • U8 pin 8 - Ground
    • U8 pin 9 (D10)*- U7 pin 6, U6 pin 14, U11 pin 29
    • U8 pin 10 (D00)*- U7 pin 6, U6 pin 14, U11 pin 29
    • U8 pin 11 (D11)@- U7 pin 7, U6 pin 15, U11 pin 28
      (* U8 pins 9&10 shorted together)
      (@ U8 pins 11&12 shorted together)

    • U8 pin 12 (D01)@- U7 pin 7, U6 pin 15, U11 pin 28
    • U8 pin 13 (D12)*- U7 pin 8, U6 pin 16, U11 pin 27
    • U8 pin 14 (D02)*- U7 pin 8, U6 pin 16, U11 pin 27
    • U8 pin 15 (D13)#- U7 pin 9, U6 pin 17, U11 pin 26
    • U8 pin 16 (D03)#- U7 pin 9, U6 pin 17, U11 pin 26
    • U8 pin 17 (CE2) - Q5 rt upper leg, U9 pin 40, U11 pin 34
    • U8 pin 18 (OD) - U18 pin 6
    • U8 pin 19 (CE1) - U17 pin 8
    • U8 pin 20 (R/W) - U7 pin 16, U11 pin 21, U9 pin 34, U18 pin 7
    • U8 pin 21 (A4) - U7 pin 19, U6 pin 4, U11 pin 22
    • U8 pin 22 (Vcc) - C13 left leg, R12 upper leg, CR5 lower leg
      (@ U8 pins 11&12 shorted together)
      (* U8 pins 13&14 shorted together)
      (# U8 pins 15&16 shorted together)

    If all the U8 RAM lines ring out as described above, andthe 5101 U8 RAM is known "good", yet only two LED flashesare received, next replace U19 (4011). This often fixesa stubborn two-LED-flash MPU board.
    Also be aware of the speed of any replacement 5101 RAM.A too-slow 5101 will may pass the initial boot-up LED code test,but can cause wack score display behavior.Turns out a bad 5101 RAM or one that is too slow will notkeep up with the CPU's demand for accessing the display data. Here's a list of 5101 RAM speeds:
    • PCD5101P : 150nS (Philips)
    • 5101-1 : 450nS
    • 5101L-1 : 450nS
    • 5101-2 : 450nS
    • 5101L-2 : 450nS
    • 5101 : 650nS
    • 5101L : 650nS
    • 5101-3 : 650nS
    • 5101L-3 : 650nS
    • 5101-8 : 800nS
    The Phillips brand of 5101 is the best, as it's the fastest and will workin all Bally/Stern MPU board applications.Sterns MPU-200 need 450ns or faster RAM, Bally MPU -35/-17 need 650ns or faster.So you can see that some 5101 RAM just won't work properely in Bally or SternMPU boards.

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